The Distinction Between Israel and the Church

The Distinction Between Israel and the Church or separation between Israel and Church and the bases for Pre trib rapture

Chris from Rapturforums gives us the perfect example of Dispensationalism at work.

http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/prophecy-end-times-chat/85917-tribulation%92s-purpose-vs-church%92s-nature.html

Points to remember :

• The Church and Israel are not interchangeable, they will always be two distinct people
• The Church is a new creation that began at the out pouring of the holy spirit during Pentecost and will continue until the rapture
• The promises made to Israel are fillfulled to Israel and not the Church
• The word Israel always means Israel in scriptures, the church always means church.
• Israel always refers to Jewish people
• Nature of Israel and the Nature of the Church

Lets first address the nature of Israel and the Church and How Raptureforum gets to his amazing “point” Therefore, no purpose is served by having the Church endure the Great Tribulation.

A People Called By My Name (Israel): God says that Israel is a “people called by My Name”  (2nd Chronicles 7:14, 6:5-6, 1st Kings 8:16, Nehemiah 1:9, Isaiah 43:7, Jeremiah 7:12, 7:30, Acts 9:15). 

Firstly what is God’s name? Jehovah or Yahweh?

Israel was never called by that name. They wouldn’t even say that name.  Israel was called by the name Israel.  Those who are God’s people are Israel.

Genesis 32:22-32 tells us the story how Jacob received his new name Israel. Jacob wrestled with a man who is God. In fact all scholars agree and scriptural fact Jacob was wrestling with Jesus Christ.

The name Israel means “he struggles with God.”  Who else do you know struggles with God? Jesus Also struggled with God and with man to overcome our sin.

Israel can mean several things. First, it often denotes national Israel--the nation whose citizens are physical descendants of Jacob/Israel. Second, it can mean those physical descendants of Jacob who have not responded to the call of God (Romans 9:31, 11:7). Third, it can mean those Jews (the remnant) who have trusted in the promises of God.

It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. (Romans 9:6-7; italics added)

Being a physical descendant of Abraham, while it does bring an advantage (Romans 3:1-2), does not mean one is automatically a spiritual descendant of Abraham (Romans 2:28-29; John 8:39; Matthew 3:9). "Not all who are descended from Israel are Israel." A person can be part of national Israel, and yet not be part of remnant Israel. There is an Israel within Israel, a subset of physical-and-spiritual Jewish people (remnant Israel) among the group of physically Jewish people (national Israel).

A People Called By My Name (Church): Historically understood the ekklesia mentioned in the NT was founded by a Torah observant Jew and began with the Jewish people (Gal 4:4; Rom 15:8). The first followers of Jesus were all Jews. The 12 Apostles were Jews and the very writers of the NT.

The Church, please pay attention was born amongst the Jewish people, how can it possible be separated from the Jews?

The bible throws the entire NT book at Dispensationalism. Jesus who was born a Jew died on the cross destroyed any distinctions between Jews and Church.

Why the Seperation, what happend?

In the early years of the ekklesia of Jesus was a tolerated subset within larger Israel. Until the distruction of the Jewish Temple in 70AD which Jesus prophesied would happen. We historically can see formal Jewish persecution of the followers of Jesus. Evidence of this can be found in the infamous Birkat HaMinim which invoked a curse on the followers of Jesus. Further a rift between the followers of Jesus and Rabbinic Judaism was intensified in the Bar Kokhba Revolt.

With the rejection of the ekklesia of Jesus by ethnic Jewish Leaders more and more Gentiles came to faith and slowly the Jewish roots of Jesus began to be forgotten.

Various Gentile Christian Teachers of the first few centuries advocated severing the ekklesia from its historic jewish roots. We then start to see a Gentile Church becoming distinct entity from Israel with its own mission and purpose, the ekklesia of Jesus became Gentilized.

Example:

Marcion of Sinope (110-160 AD) wanted to separate Chrsitianity from any connection with Judaism

Justin Martyr (100-165 AD) Israel was no longer valid and was replaced by the Gentiles

Tertullian (160 -220 AD) blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus Christ

And the list goes on; the point is early Church leaders rejected the Jewish roots of Christianity very much what we still see today by Dispensationalism and Replacement theology

There has been times when the Reformers tried to return the Church to its early Jewish roots but sadly they missed the mark completely and did not return it to the ekklesia of Jesus.

This is why Dispensationalism is so popular as its the state which man has created the Church to be from the early Christian leaders. We are divorced from each other. Jews and Gentiles are divorced. We separated.

The holy spirit did not create the church we see now, man did. The separation of Church and Israel is caused by man.

The holy spirit created the ekklesia of Jesus. 

Dispensationalism vs Covenant vs Remnant Theology Part 1

The Battle Plan

Before we begin to go down this deep mine shaft to insanity, I need to first state my position on which theology I stand with. It is my believe that Remnant Theology is the correct doctrine to follow; I will explain how I came to this theology and what it is. But before we get there we need to first tackle Dispensationalism theology and then move on to Dispensationalisms mortal enemy Covenant Theology.

Whenever I test scriptures or theology I ask God what you would choose, what you are choosing for us...in other words I’m asking God very simply what are you telling us.

Dispensationalism

Dispensationalism is so popular and widespread that it has become a major, dare I say central theme in Evangelical doctrine, teachings and preaching’s. Dispensationalism is not an isolated false teaching, it is an over-arching theological system; it is an eschatology (doctrine of the end times), an ecclesiology (doctrine of the church), soteriology (doctrine of salvation), a hermeneutic (approach to the Scriptures) and so forth. Like a cancer, dispensational theology spreads into every part, making the whole body of theology critically ill and effectively capitulating it.

Any attempt to test and debate with dispensationalists is similar to debating with atheists. That’s right I place dispensationialists on the same level as Atheists, both are stead fast in their believe, both are arrogant in their believe and both are contradictory in their believes and most importantly both are dangerous in their believe.

With blinker vision if you don’t believe in Dispensationalism according to them you are therefore automatically a covenant theologian (which we will discuss late) and a heretic but as explained there is another theology called Remnant theology.

The topics we will discuss on Dispensationalism

1. What are the fundamentals of Dispensationalism

• The Distinction Between Israel and the Church or separation between Israel and Church and the bases for Pre trib rapture
• Literal Hermeneutic
• The Purpose of History is the Glory of God and not the Salvation of Man.

2. Verities of Dispensationalism

It is helpful to identify the different verities within Dispensationalism, as one engages with today’s dispensationalist they tend to slut themselves or whore themselves around these frameworks listed below in order to hold on to their believes. Continually running around in circles and contradicting the very theology they believe in.

• Classical Dispensationalism - (Scofield, Chafer), Israel is on the earth, the church is in heaven and the two never meet in the new world. There are two ways of salvation: works in the OT and faith in the NT
• Hyper Dispensationalism - Instead of finding the usual Dispensationalist origin of the church in Acts 2, these see it in Acts 13
• Ultra Dispensationalism - The church begins in Acts 28. Therefore, only a few of Paul‘s letters apply to the church, the rest of the NT is Jewish.
• Neo Dispensationalism -Israel and the church will be together after the millennium; there is only one way to salvation in both testaments (faith); there is only one new covenant. Dallas seminary promotes this view.
• Progressive Dispensationalism - believes that the covenants have not been completely fulfilled.  But today, aspects of the covenants are being fulfilled.  They are being partially fulfilled in the Church.  When Christ returns, they are to be completely fulfilled in Israel.

Within our discussion we will identify the Problems with Dispensationalism with the following subtopics

• A People Called By My Name
• The Children of Abraham
• The New Covenant
• Three Dispensations, Not Seven
• The Seven Covenants
• The Kingdom of Heaven
• Israel Ruling the Nations
• The Woman About to Give Birth

Within our discussion we will identify the Problems with the Pre-Tribulation Rapture with the following subtopics

• Two men working; two women grinding
• Is being gathered different from being caught-up?
• Chart of Pre/Post Tribulation Attributes
• The Olivet Discourse in Daniel 12
• Parable of the Fig Tree
• The Unknown Day and Hour
• The Doctrine of Imminence
• The Thief in the Night Parable
• Who is the Restrainer?
• The Day of the Lord
• We are Not Appointed to God's Wrath
• The Wedding Banquet who is the bride

Side Notes

• We will exam the Dispensational view of Amillennialism vs. Premillennialism and why the Dispensational view of Premillennialism actually leads one to Amillennialism.
• Dispensationalists lust for war
• The founding Fathers of Dispensationalism
• Time setting and false teachers

The Three Laodiceans

We have rounded up three of the most dangerous online “ministries” threatening the church as we know it, exposing them for what they truly are Heretics and causing weapeans of mass delusions.

RaptureForums
www.raptureforums.com

Eschatologytoday

http://eschatologytoday.blogspot.com/

Lion and Lamb Ministries

http://www.lamblion.com/

All three sites run within the same circle dedicated to the mainstream movement of Dispensationalism with a forceful and arrogant take on when the rapture, Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38, and the Tribulations will and must occur in that sequence.

Within RaptureForum you will quickly realise who are the main clicks on this forum. All objections to their view or challenges to their view for example Tithing, Satan still has access to Heaven, Pretrip Rapture, Psalm 83 future, European Anitchrist and so forth is met with mockery, manipulation of the forum structures to prevent you from further posting or any objective challenge to their believes and will result in you being banned from topics and banned from the entire site itself. The main NAZI like tactics are instigated by members who go by the names of RandallB, iSong 6:3, Mattfivefour and Chris.

The owner and blogger of Eschatologytoday believes that the Holy Angel gave him the prophetic blueprint to how the events of Rapture, Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38 and the Tribulation will occur or unfold and any challenge to this is against “the holy spirit”.  Again any challenge to this belief of sequence is met with complete smugness and arrogance.

LionandLamb run by Dr. David Reagan believes that the lord gives him dreams, visions and prophetic words; the problem is Dr David Reagan prophesies things in time frames that never happens. Nathan who handles the website and social media aspects of the site shares in the same believes and can be find regularly on Christian sites.

The dangers with these three Laodiceans is the breading ground and influence they seems to have on their members one can even go so far as to call them cults. The bases of their attitudes is your either against us or with us. Inorther words if you don’t believe in our doctrines you are wrong, a false teacher, a heretic and will burn in hell.

They further push the belief in Dispensationalism and that one does not have to believe in pretrib rapture in order to be saved is highly contradictory to the very movement or doctrine they worship. Not only are they deluding others, but are in effect deluding themselves as the very reason for the doctrine of Despensationalism was founded to promote pre trib rapture and one must believe in that doctrine in order to be saved. However this is a dedicated topic we will cover in our next posting on why Dispensationalism is heretic movement.

As mentioned you will notice that the three Laodiceans travel in packs. If one stumbles upon Joels Trumpet you can really see how they behave and the arrogance displayed on fellow teachers http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=3766

Meet the Laodiceans and know who the enemy of Christ is.

Here is a link on Chris the owner of RaptureForum, Sean Osborne, owner of Eschatologytoday and Nathan of Lion and Lamb completely attacking a fellow Christian

http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=3842

Sean Osborne

The devoid-of-the-Holy Spirit aspect of such teaching and efforts will be laid bare. The consequences of this false teaching will be painful.

Raptureforums

“Accuser in Christ”…er…”Brother in Christ” I hate to be the one to tell you this but you don’t have a clue as to what you are spewing out of your mouth!

http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=6328

Don't listen to Joel! says: Chris Schang (host of Rapture Forums),

January 30, 2014 at 1:45 am

Neither of the two verses you first quoted said the AC will be buried. Can’t you read? And it is very telling that you did not put the exact verses from Isaiah 14 you quoted in your little article. Why did you leave out Isaiah 14:20 ? That right there says the AC is not buried. So you’ve got Revelation and Isaiah 14:20  both saying he is not buried, but oh no, Joel can’t listen to God. He’s too busy promoting his bankrupt Islamic AC nonsense. I just noticed your Alexa ranking, it is way up at 3.7 million. That means NO ONE is listening to you anymore. LOL Give it up, admit you were wrong, and join the rest of the sound Bible teachers and quit trying to make money on bankrupt theories. LOL

These ministries are not God inspired nor can one find the holy spirit in them. These three heretics are not promoting God they promoting their own ego’s with a NAZI like tactic to do anything to save their reputation than to submit to the truth.

Rev 3:15-17

“I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold. I wish that you were one or the other! ¹⁶ But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth!